Host (Ganiela Angelova): The rift and factions within the established political parties—what do they signify? We have Nidal Alghafari and Maxim Behar here to discuss. Good evening, gentlemen, and welcome!

Maxim Behar: Good evening!

Host: Yesterday, the Central Operative Bureau unexpectedly expelled Delyan Peevski, part of the Movement for Rights and Freedoms (DPS), without a quorum. What are the next moves for DPS? Shouldn't this first go through the Central Council? Mr. Behar, are you acquainted with this subject?

Maxim Behar: This is more of a legal question. It seems to me that all this urgency was provoked by the fact that the elections are practically around the corner. They are on October 27.

Host: The registration is until September 11.

Maxim Behar: No court could decide by September 11, or even October 27, whether there was a quorum. The statement said those who disagree could appeal to a review commission or some similar institutional body they have in DPS. This commission has no deadline to rule on who is right. So, it's a legal issue. But there's also a political aspect, which is that the political state in Bulgaria has started to resemble Easter—meaning miracles are happening. What is the miracle? DPS is splitting, and the Bulgarian Socialist Party (BSP) is uniting. We now have a slightly different political environment than in the last two or three elections. I think the upcoming ones will be the seventh. I would be very interested to see what happens. First, whether Ahmed Dogan will indeed be able to convince the voters of DPS, who are a very homogenous group, that he is still the leader. Second, it will be important to know whether BSP might turn out to be the second political force after Citizens for European Development of Bulgaria (GERB). Personally, my expectation is that they will receive a rather impressive result. We are all quite disappointed by the businesspeople in power because We Continue the Change (PP) consists of young people from the business sector. There were also other business representatives in various political formations. At one point, I naively, as, thank God I don't deal with politics, thought that if a businessman came into power, they would prioritize business in Bulgaria. Does anyone in this studio know the difference between the political platforms of the various political forces? No one. You could invite the entire Parliament, and no one would know.

Host: Whether they know them is another question.

Maxim Behar: We'll likely have a DPS following its legendary leader, Ahmed Dogan—the founder. The sad part, however, is that we're pointing names—Delyan Peevski, Ahmed Dogan, Kiril Petkov—but what are they offering? Businesspeople have governed Bulgaria, and the highest inflation was during their rule. Prices increased, and people didn't know what was happening with pensions and incomes. That is, there was a mix of pseudo-leftist policies and money giveaways, the market was flooded, and prices went up. Now, all of us—perhaps 3-4 million voters in Bulgaria—will vote again, but we wonder what's being offered. The offer is half the portion we should have in the elections. The other half is control over what's happening.

Host: There are no proposals and no control. Why should people go out to vote?

Maxim Behar: After the elections, someone should ask the politicians why they haven't fulfilled their promises. But no one asks these questions. First, there needs to be someone to ask them. Second, even in the Parliament, this isn't discussed—everyone goes in their direction after winning the elections. This way, Bulgaria can hardly move forward. Over these 34 years, we've been sitting and believing. Yes, Bulgaria has changed a lot, and the whole world has changed. Bulgaria has moved forward—there are many businesses and many niches where business is developing. People live better. But that doesn't mean that in 2024, we should stop and say we've achieved everything—the European Union and NATO. It's not about climbing to the top but staying on top. And we're not even at the base yet.

Host: Mr. Behar, you started saying that BSP is uniting. You heard Mr. Alghafari's argument.

Maxim Behar: Yes, I believe they will unite. All these people are opportunists and are united by the desire to participate in public life, from which they were almost forcibly removed over the past few years. But what we're talking about brings us back to one main topic: the Constitution of the Republic of Bulgaria. I don't emphasize the change concerning the so-called "household register," but we need one that removes caretaker governments because they are absolutely unnecessary in Bulgarian political reality in 2024. There could have been a government that ruled and held elections, and that government would have continued its policy. Otherwise, what foreign or Bulgarian investor will come to invest 100,000 or 2 million euros in Bulgaria when there is no political stability? We're talking about the economy—the most important thing. We don't care who holds what position or where they are on the list.

Host: Politicians probably don't ask themselves this question.

Maxim Behar: For us—the ones who pay taxes, produce products, pay salaries—it's essential to have good players in the market. I talk to many people who say they're waiting for a regular government, and then they will make a decision to invest. Removing caretaker governments will make things much more predictable and better controlled. What we have now isn't a caretaker government. We can now say it's a permanent caretaker government.

Host: Will there be a cabinet after these elections? I'm asking you in the context of DPS-Dogan because of the coalition "We Continue the Change - Democratic Bulgaria" (PP-DB) and co-chair of Democratic Bulgaria Hristo Ivanov's words about working with Dogan to eliminate Peevski.

Maxim Behar: It's logical to assume that there will be a government after the elections on October 27. In English, this is called "wishful thinking." But we immediately ask the next question: if there will be a government, why don't we have one now in the last elections or before?

Host: Because there was an "agreement."

Maxim Behar: There was some "agreement" before that; there were another three or four caretaker governments if I'm not mistaken. The result won't be dramatically different this time. GERB will likely be the leading force again. Suppose someone wants to form a government after the elections. In that case, they should state from today—with whom they'll form a coalition, that this coalition will ensure Bulgaria enters the Eurozone and Schengen and what specific steps they will take. Otherwise, we will vote again like a flock of sheep, each individually, and then politicians hold endless conversations. Meanwhile, we wait for something that may or may not happen. All of this is not serious.

Nidal Alghafari: We all know it's about a big pie, which the politicians don't eat—it's not corruption—but they distribute it to the business interests around them.

Host: When have they given it? Yes, they always give it to the business interests around them.

Nidal Alghafari: This is always the case, and it's the same worldwide—politicians have businesspeople who stand beside or behind them, help them, and expect the same in return. I'm not talking about corruption or something illegal. Politics and economics are intertwined.

Host: The state as a pie, Mr. Behar, distributed to certain people—what do you think?

Maxim Behar: It's like that worldwide, but I have a slightly different opinion because there's always something for the opposition and everyone. I'm unsure if comparing it to a pie is the most appropriate. By the way, I don't agree that if someone says with whom they'll form a coalition before the elections, they would lose because of that. If reasonable people vote for Bulgaria to have a regular government, we will have good politics. If what they say is positive, I would vote for a political party that tells me what will happen after the elections.

Host: Won't PP-DB lose if they say they'll govern with GERB and DPS-Dogan, for example?

Maxim Behar: They already governed together.

Host: It wasn't a coalition, according to them—a "non-coalition," and so on, with irony.

Maxim Behar: An "agreement"—whatever it's called—they governed together, and all those coffee talks and metaphors were introduced into the toolbox of verbal battles. There's nothing wrong with saying that for the sake of Bulgaria, for the people who vote—the Bulgarians—you would govern with a particular political force and take specific steps to make Bulgaria a better place to live. That's what we all want.

Nidal Alghafari: The political parties currently know very well that only their hardcore supporters will come out. It's very difficult to persuade the periphery, or those without a preference, to vote, whatever they say. After all, politicians have been lying to these people for more than 30 years. So now, they are trying to keep their hardcore supporters with words, actions, and deeds that won't cause any part of them to separate, and after that, the leaders might or might not come together. In such a pre-election situation, no one would wish to say that they would coalition with the leader of GERB, Boyko Borisov, for example, or that he would do so with those who previously arrested him. There's a theoretical possibility, and it could happen that people split off and refuse to vote for them. Reasonable people like you, Mr. Behar, who think positively, are few in Bulgaria.

Maxim Behar: But there's also a great possibility that people will be happy that, after all the quarrels, our politicians have found common ground and want to do something good for Bulgaria. Because, among other things, we're all tired. All of Bulgaria's voters are tired of these three years of voting with no results, and probably even from before.

Host: Will the Ministry of Interior manage to prevent vote buying? PP-DB doesn't like this minister either.

Maxim Behar: I wouldn't put everything on the voters because the most important things are how politicians speak, what they put on the table, and what they say they want to do and commit to doing. No normal person in Bulgaria who watches TV debates or listens to messages sees a politician who wants to do something good and looks like a decent person worth voting for. We saw what happened in the previous debates and the ones before that—an exceptional talk fest of empty messages. On top of that, the leaders hide and don't go to debate against each other.

Nidal Alghafari: People seem to have stopped caring about politicians at some point, and it's tough to pull them away from their lives and standards to spend 15 minutes voting.

Host: Especially when everyone thinks, "All Bulgarian politicians are scoundrels." Final words, please.

Maxim Behar: Yes, and this shows that Bulgaria isn't in crisis, that it has changed, but we all want it to be even better. We all want to have even more decent people and new faces and people. And I'm not talking about where and what they've graduated from, but that they should have charisma, the ability to persuade, and the ability to account for what and how they've done. These people will emerge one day, and I hope it's sooner.

Host: Thank you for this conversation! We end on an optimistic note.

Maxim Behar: We thank you as well!

 

Watch the full interview here.