Host (Lora Indzhova): We're in the final hours before Goritsa Grancharova-Kozhareva announces the composition of her interim government. While I say "final hours," it's not even hours, as we expect Ms. Kozhareva to be at the presidency at 11 o'clock. We'll be broadcasting live, of course, covering everything we can where the media is allowed, and we'll comment. The designated prime minister must present the names of the ministers in her government to President Rumen Radev today. The confirmed additions include the deputy prime minister and interim minister of finance, Lyudmila Petkova, the agriculture minister, Georgi Tahov, and the economic minister, Petko Nikolov.

We've already started discussing the likelihood of her withdrawing from my guests. In our shared opinion, it's unlikely she will withdraw. My guests are Maxim Behar, a communication expert, and Associate Professor Alexander Hristov, also a PR expert. Hello, gentlemen, and welcome!

Maxim Behar: Good day!

Host: She's unlikely to withdraw. Given the ongoing discussions, seeing a refusal and an unfulfilled mandate would be surprising.

Maxim: From what we've observed over the last three years, it doesn't matter whether she withdraws or not. There will be an interim government either way. That's what the Constitution says. Whether it's now or in two weeks, it doesn't matter.

Host: However, there's a difference for the President because it does matter to him – he's set a final deadline of August 19 so that elections can be held on October 20.

Maxim: Yes, they will be held, perhaps on November 5 or whenever necessary.

Host: You say, after so many elections that we've held.

Maxim: I say it with regret because this isn't a good trend.

Host: Is there any significance to these processes we're observing or analyzing with you? We're experiencing them again, but are there any conclusions we're drawing? The considerable intrigue is the name of Kalin Stoyanov, who will continue, and will Ms. Kozhareva be invited to remain as the interior minister.

Maxim: It's a made-up intrigue, in my opinion. I think names are deliberately thrown into the media, and this has been happening in Bulgaria for at least 25 years. You throw a name into the media and see what the reactions are, the reactions of politicians. If not this minister, even if he defends certain interests, it could easily be someone else who defends the same interests. I'm slightly disappointed by what I see because, on the one hand, there really isn't any communication with the media. On the other hand, with all this, which you started with several names, we see that there will hardly be drastic changes in this cabinet. Now that we have a new prime minister, Alex said they are equally bland, and probably it doesn't matter who it is, but I think there's a huge significance in who the prime minister is. He could organize a good team, and for instance, the governor of the National Bank is a person who understands economics and can put two and two together and propose sensible economic steps or measures to control inflation in Bulgaria; there can be a big stimulus for investments, for production, to work on the brand Bulgaria, on the image. These are crucial things that didn't happen over the last few months.

Host: I understand your viewpoint, and it provokes me to think about something - this "Household Register," which the President has after the changes in the Constitution. Former interim prime minister Dimitar Glavchev is the only one currently in this "Household Register." Practically after each interim prime minister, we start analyzing under whose political influence the people in this "Household Register" who agreed to become prime minister are. In this sense, can we speculate about the significance of the prime minister's role, considering this framework they are currently in?

Maxim: I haven't heard a single positive opinion in the last few months.

Host: Dimitar Glavchev sought the influence of Citizens for European Development of Bulgaria (GERB) – after all, he has a political career in GERB.

Maxim: Everyone is somehow connected to GERB.

Host: Analyses also came out about Kozhareva.

Maxim: I don't want to mention this "Household Register" because we belittle what is happening. Everyone is somehow connected to GERB, and I think the changes that were made in the Constitution are the factors that caused this chaos in Bulgarian politics. Go back months – there's not a positive opinion about that. There must be a rich choice of people and candidates and a profile of the future prime minister, but for example, they necessarily have to be an economist. I don't see anything more important than the economy.

Associate Professor Alexander Hristov: We're in a situation like a hamster in a wheel, slower or faster, but it can't get out of there. And something from outside – a new political force or idea needs to appear in the political process for it to move forward and for us to move somewhere. In that sense, although we are currently experiencing some kind of Brezhnev stagnation, we can say that this time is necessary for political forces to rethink or for someone new to appear.

Host: Will this hamster soon get out of the wheel, then? If we go into the analysis given by Associate Professor Hristov about the emergence of a new political subject.

Maxim: I don't quite agree with this metaphor with the hamster because, outside this wheel, we all stand – the entire Bulgarian people.

Host: Are we outside, or are we the hamster inside?

Maxim: We are outside. Inside this wheel stand 20 people who want to govern Bulgaria, and they spin, and there's no getting out of there.

Host: That is, the solution is outside, not from the hamster, which finds a loophole to escape.

Maxim: When I look back, in the winter of '97, there was a legendary interim government of Stefan Sofiyanski, who appeared as if out of a movie. There was hyperinflation – 3-4 thousand percent, my colleagues' salaries became 2 dollars overnight. There was a major crisis in Bulgaria. Stefan Sofiyanski appeared and, literally in a week, put things in order because it wasn't difficult for it to happen. Of course, with the support of then-President Petar Stoyanov, who played a fantastic role. And I thought, whether Bulgaria is waiting for some collapse or something important needs to happen – God forbid, an economic collapse – so that all politicians get stressed. I lost confidence over the last few years that there are politicians, no matter what they are, that someone will decide to work for Bulgaria.

Host: Do you believe that politicians have reached this level of communication?

Maxim: No, that communication isn't there. I don't understand why. If this happened in business, we would always find a common language with business partners we don't get along with for our colleagues working peacefully, their families being peaceful, the business going on, and us making a profit. However, state management is starting to become a very different territory from what is necessary in modern society. We see this not only in Bulgaria but since we are here, it has been very painful. If we look back in history, the last 30 years, perhaps in all countries in Central and Eastern Europe, we have had the most governments. I was recently at an event at the Atlantic Club, and someone said, "Good day, Mr. Minister," and about 30 people responded.

Host: Elections are coming – the President is rushing for them to happen on October 20. What will they bring us? Are you expecting something new – some movement, a change from outside?

Maxim: What is happening in Bulgaria now shows that there is absolutely no need for interim governments, and this institution should be abolished. For example, if parliament votes no confidence in a government, let it continue to work. Then, there would be elections; they may not make a government right away, but the old government should continue.

Host: That is, until a new government is chosen, the current one in resignation should govern.

Maxim: Yes, and it is so in 90% of European countries. Probably at the dawn of democracy, someone came up with this formula of an interim government so that SDS or BSM wouldn't stay in power longer. But all this is hyper-outdated, and if someone had to change the Constitution, as it was changed a year ago, this should have been changed in that sense: no interim government, ministers bear responsibilities according to the law, they should do their job, and thus we make an endless carousel. These elections will be very interesting – we haven't had such before.

Host: The upcoming ones, you say, will be very interesting. Why?

Maxim: Two Movement for Rights and Freedoms (DPS) parties – you can't tell who will take what part, and no one knows. Magnificence, which split and probably will not exist on the horizon. We Continue the Change – Democratic Bulgaria (PP-DB) does not get along well on all points, and I am not very convinced that it won't be slightly artificial if they make a coalition. GERB tends to fall because this has been happening over the last 2-3 years. And we have a new Bulgarian Socialist Party (BSP) that is united.

Host: Are you expecting their percentages to rise there?

Maxim: I expect a lot to rise there. And not because I'm a fan of the so-called "left idea." I don't know who is left or right anymore. In a purely economic sense, I find PP a much more left-wing political formation than BSP. I expect BSP to make quite a serious rise. The very fact is that all the people who have been dissatisfied in the last few years are looking for a new face. Suppose there isn't time for someone sufficiently large, charismatic leader to appear by October 20. We have several examples in the newest Bulgarian history, like King Simeon II and Boyko Borisov – they had time. They were already on the political scene and were recognizable. I don't know the new people from BSP, and I don't know to what extent they would have the vision to do something interesting, but they reached out and united everyone. BSP has had strong moments over the last 20 years.

Host: An unexpected turn of events. I thought everything would go by procedure, and she would present a composition of the interim cabinet, which would be approved and advanced by the President's decree, but that didn't happen. Everything is related to Kozhareva's proposal for Kalin Stoyanov to remain the minister of internal affairs. She made two changes according to her lineup: Associate Professor Petko Stefanovski will take the post in the Ministry of Health, and the current Minister of Transport, Georgi Gvozdeikov, will be replaced by Valeri Borisov. However, she announced Kalin Stoyanov as the minister who will continue performing Minister of Internal Affairs functions. This prompted the President to offer her a delay until 3 pm to meet again and propose another name for the Minister of Internal Affairs. The President's opinion sounded quite definite, and if Kalin Stoyanov was in this post, it would have been impossible to conduct fair elections. Kozhareva's reaction was swift and unyielding. She said she had met with the Ministry of Internal Affairs leadership and had no intention of proposing another Minister of Internal Affairs. Subsequently, President Rumen Radev stated that he would not sign the decree and that there would be no oath in the National Assembly tomorrow. The interim cabinet of Glavchev continues to perform its functions until another interim cabinet is selected, and the elections will be postponed after October 20. We here in the studio silently watched the screen with great interest. Gentlemen, Maxim Behar and Associate Professor Alexander Hristov continue to be here in the studio, and we are trying to connect with Associate Professor Natalia Kislova. I'm curious, purely legally, now that the President will not sign the decree, what follows? Again, in this procedure, we enter conversations and proposals from the "Household Register." Welcome with first impressions and reactions.

Maxim: This neighborhood quarrel could have spared the audience. I don't know if it's in such great interest because yet another interim government could have been agreed upon with the President and the candidate for prime minister. She could not have gone there, and all this really could have passed.

Host: Kalin Stoyanov is a significant figure. How do you explain this? That was the considerable intrigue, and I say it without any bias towards one direction or another. We recently observed it in a purely political clash from the rotation onwards.

Maxim: I do not exclude the unions, his deputies, and the people from the police who are having some arguments to stand behind him. I have no idea who this person is connected to.

Host: At the same time, however, information emerged about how people were being persuaded to attend a protest in defense of professional leadership.

Maxim: The protest was ridiculous because he appeared at the rally. Apparently, for someone, he is critical.

Alexander Hristov: I will take the word from that the people from the Ministry of Internal Affairs support him, want him, and so on. It may be so, but these are not the only recipients of his policies. The President is right because we all receive his policies as the Minister of Internal Affairs. So, the people's opinion from the Ministry of Internal Affairs should be 10% of what needs to be considered.

Maxim: Yes, it's probably like that. It seems this was a theater, which might have been caused by the President, who wasn't 100% happy with it. By the way, the gesture of the candidate for prime minister was excellent – she managed to preserve continuity, to preserve 90% of the composition of the previous interim government, apparently in order to avoid upheavals and changes. Every minister comes with deputy ministers, secretaries, and administrative directors, and generally, the whole machine for 3-4 months is pointless to change. It was a good gesture; maybe the President played it as he wanted. I do not agree very much that Kalin Stoyanov is a political corpse; quite the opposite – I think they made him a hero. Suddenly, the whole state cannot work because of this man. He is extremely valuable to someone, a super leader.

Host: Continuing your thought from the point of view of wondering whether he is a political corpse. In fact, the President's main argument is that if Kalin Stoyanov is the Minister of Internal Affairs, fair elections cannot be held. What is your opinion?

Maxim: I'm pondering the topic of an "image corpse" or someone who came out of the whole neighborhood quarrel we saw live in the presidency. With a tarnished image, I think it's the candidate for prime minister. She received a strong slap and could not respond to it. She put her stability and her government on the line, and she lived without even taking advantage of those 4 hours given to her. She should forget about politics or dealing with something similar. Part of politics and diplomacy is the ability to make compromises, understand important things, and put national interests above your own whims and conversations.

Host: So, you're saying her behavior in the case is wrong as a step? She categorically rejected the possibility of meeting again with the President at 3 pm.

Maxim: I categorically think it's a mistake, and what played out in the presidency was not what we wanted to see or what Bulgaria expected – to have a government that works.

Host: Purely journalistically, I didn't expect something like that either.

Maxim: There are three critical points. First, holding fair elections depends a lot on the Ministry of Internal Affairs, but not everything depends on the minister – the Ministry of Internal Affairs is an institution, after all. You can't personalize everything, like putting one minister, and everything will flow, and if we put another minister, there will be doubts about falsifications. The Ministry of Internal Affairs is an institution of tens of thousands of people working professionally, and it doesn't depend much on the minister. Second, I will analyze Mrs. Grancharova's words – perhaps it's better this way. We see a candidate for prime minister who says she is an auditor. And they want an auditor – someone who checks and looks. The auditing profession is extremely responsible, and I greatly respect it, as I constantly deal with auditors in my business. However, ultimately, a politician needs to have a broader view and look at the bigger picture, not just the numbers and Excel files. Perhaps it's better that an auditor will go and do the auditing work for which she is trained and specialized. Now, there will be a path and opportunity for someone else to take this position, someone with more managerial experience. And this is the third point: a person – the deputy governor Dimitar Chobanov, a former minister, and I have known him for many years – has expressed a desire to take this post.

Host: I suspect what would be unleashed as analysis. Again, we return to the Household Register's topic and the influence of the people on people or political forces.

Maxim: Whomever the candidate for this position is, publications will be unleashed.

Host: Final words, gentlemen.

Maxim: I try to put myself in the shoes of the President and understand why he said that about Kalin Stoyanov and made that whole scene. He told the politicians to fix their laws and return after filling their places. Moreover, there is no political crisis now – we have a government that has been working for four months and continues; we have a parliament that works. There is no reason to think that there is a political crisis. The President just decided to show character.

Host: Thank you, gentlemen!

 

Watch the full interview here.